Post by SkywisePost by SkywiseAlso, I have to wonder what is being discussed in web forums that
can't be discussed in an appropriate newsgroup?
Specifically, hobbyist laser topics. <snip>
All of which I'm sure would be acceptable discussion right here
in this newsgroup. Perhaps that's why this group is so 'dead'?
I agree - they would be acceptable. However, the past discussions on
laser show ideas are in the minority of the posts on this newsgroup.
Sam himself has admitted that he's not really a "show" person. He
loves lasers, and knows a lot about them, but has no aspirations about
building a projector. That doesn't mean that there aren't others here
that *do* enjoy talking about shows and show topics, but the posting
history does seem rather thin in that area... (As a whole, however,
alt.lasers seems to be thriving.)
Furthermore, USNET in general can be trying at times. Lots of old-hand
computer gurus that have answered each and every question a hundred
times, and are now tired of answering it. Patience is sometimes in
short supply. Believe me, I know. Back in the day I used to be quite
active on comp.sys.amiga, and it got downright ugly towards the end.
And I'm no saint either. I got just as impatient as everyone else did
with all the newbies asking lame questions like, "how can I get AGA on
my A500?" or "what games can I play with a Video Toaster?" Grrr...
Now, again I have to admit that most of the people here on alt.lasers
have resisted the urge to succumb to "curmudgeon's disease", and the
bulk of the posts here are civil.
Post by SkywiseThere's a solution to posts by people one does not like. It's called
a killfile. Which is another disadvantage of web based forums. "No
user serviceable filters inside."
This is actually one of the features that I sometimes don't like about
USNET, and rarely if ever use myself... It's too easy to ignore people
that you don't want to listen to. Granted, there are times when it's
needed, but using a killfile can limit the discussion. (To make a
really bad analogy, it's like having mod points on slashdot, and then
browsing the comments you want to moderate at + 3... You'll never find
anything good unless you slog through EVERYTHING at -1 looking for the
few gems that have been either posted anonymously or modded down
unfairly.)
Post by SkywiseAlso, what's to prevent this 'attitude' from occuring on the web
forum. I see it on the some of the other forums I read.
That's where a strong sense of community comes in to play. And there's
nothing magical about a web based forum. The same community can
develop (and has developed) on newsgroups. Though I do believe that
one positive aspect of a web forum is the sharing of pictures via the
linked gallery. That does seem to pull people together a bit. (And
like it or not, I think Avatars help too - bandwidth hogs though they
may be.)
Post by Skywisethe point
being, it can happen even on PhotonLexicon.
Granted. I hope it doesn't, but we'll see.
Post by SkywiseRobert doesn't have an agenda that I'm aware of, apart from creating a
place where laser enthusiasts can share ideas.
Then that is a unique place. Every web based forum I've been to
has an agenda, else, why would it exist?
Well, then I'd have to say that you haven't been to very many happy web
forums... The ones I frequent are founded by hard working people that
are fiercely passionate about the topic they are interested in. That's
not to say they're out to be lords of their domain (no pun intended!),
but rather that they want to enjoy their hobby and learn from others.
Post by SkywiseThey can't handle the free form open
discussion on usenet where they might get their noses bloodied
for being idiots.
Ok, I know what you mean there, and I've been to a few sites that would
meet that sort of definition. But they don't last long. The forums
that last are not started by idiots. For that matter, I don't have
time to waste on forums that are started by, or frequented by,
idiots...
If you'll permit me to dive off-topic for a moment here, let me offer
you an example of another sucessful web forum. Boatered.com was
started by George Van Parrys and Les Hall - two marine engineers that
had decades of experience in the boating industry. George in
particular had no ego to stroke - he'd been there and done that (and
has the publication record and engineering awards to back it up) so he
doesn't need more accolades. Likewise, Les is retired from the
industry after a sucessful career. But they wanted a forum where
boaters could discuss every facet of boating, from repair, to
purchases, to rules of the road. It's grown into a great place in the
5 years I've been there. (They've been on-line for over 8) Granted,
the site is loosely associated with their boatfix.com supply business,
but that business derives less than 3% of it's total orders from the
boatered forums. (The boating suply business pre-dates the forum by
over a decade and already enjoyed a global reach long before the forum
was concived.) Anyway, I offer it as an example of a sucessful web
forum where the founders most certainly were not afraid of getting
their noses blooddied here in usnet, but rather wanted to create a
better place for people to share information about boats.
I don't know enough about the laser industry - or Robert in particular
- to be able to make the same assessment of his skills. But I do know
that he is quite easy to talk to, and seems genuinely interested in
helping people to SAFELY discover lasers... Likewise, the site is quite
open and friendly, and as yet I've not found any hidden agenda.
Post by SkywiseActually, the reason usenet is 'dying' is because it was designed
by people who know how to use computers. Now, with every 12th grader
with only a 5th grade education using a computer, everything has to
cater to that lowest common denominator. Computers used to be for
us geeks and nerds.
I know lots of computer geeks. I still consider myself to be one, even
though I'm nearly 40. I also know that most of my peers are moving
away from usnet, and they all say the same thing... USNET is not what
it used to be.
For what it's worth, the new generation of computer geeks - by and
large - don't even bother checking out USNET... They jump straight to
the web, and stay there. This is another factor in the decline of the
newsgroups.
I don't mind keeping the 12th graders out, especially the ones with a
5th grade education. They've got no business fooling around with
lasers anyway - they need to spend more time in school learning how to
communicate properly. But the college kids (and the smarter high
school ones) that have more than half a brain would be welcome - if
they bothered to check the newsgroups. Saddly, many of them do not.
Post by SkywiseYou
don't just hand the keys to a car without knowing they have a license,
Ugh - don't get me started on the whole "AOL user" stereotype. I used
to do a little computer support work on the side.
Must-control-fist-of-death....